Following on from our chat with Defari in May, we managed to catch the other half of the Likwit Junkies, DJ Babu, for a second look at this all Californian affair. Aside from his production and role in the Likwit Junkies, Babu is best known for being the Dilated Peoples DJ and resident producer, being part of the world famous Beat Junkie crew (alongside scratch luminaries and party rockers such as J-Rocc, Melo-D and Shortkut), being a tablist legend and being held (partly) responsible for the spread of the word turntablist. This year sees Babu step up his efforts even more with a fourth Dilated album, full production credits on the LJs, an extensive tour with Rakaa and more to come still. We dutifully waited for Babu to come back from tour before calling up his mobile and getting the other side to the Likwit Junkies story. So get comfy as we delve a bit further inside the history of this new Californian super duo, talk samples, scratching and where in the hell did that term turntablist come from as well as the future of the artform. Ladies and gents we bring to you the one and only Babu…

So what have you been up to recently?

Babu: I've just been busy working on the new Dilated Peoples album, which is a lot of work and takes up time. I've also been touring for the last few months with Rakaa, we're doing this thing under the name 'Expansion Team Sound System' where I basically just play records for a few hours and Rakaa hosts on the mic, kind of a classic set up type thing. We've been all over Europe with that and then we went to Australia, New Zealand, so it's been pretty hectic. We've covered most of the world really, and then of course in between all that I’ve been working on getting the Dilated album finished and doing some gigs and other work for the LJs too.

Sounds like a lot man. Well I spoke with Defari a few weeks back, and I wanted to ask you what was it for you that made you want to work with him on an album as you’ve both had successful solo careers?

B: I met D through Evidence originally. I then did some cuts for some of his singles, and around that time Ev also told him to check for some of the stuff I was working on production wise, peep some of my beats. And after that the first thing we did together was 'Behold my Life', and then the remix. Doing that we found we had a nice chemistry together, we worked well. So we made more tracks and then the idea for LJs came up, things snowballed a bit, we sat down, made more tracks and brought it to ABB when it was near completion. So it worked out well in the end.
Thing is as well with D, he's a top notch MC and when I work with him I get to do my own thing, vary my work, in a way reinvent myself and show sides of my production I may not get the chance to necessarily. It's like finding new avenues for both of our talents. LJs have been a good thing, the chemistry was there between us, I like the sound we brought through and also it really is a grassroots thing. We've both been with majors in the past and so when we came together on this we knew we could do things differently to how we would being with a major. We came on it strong and the sonic quality of the whole thing I think is really good, I'm really happy with it; especially as it's the first time I’ve been able to produce a whole album.

Actually I wanted to speak about the production. Did you produce most of it on the spot with D, or did you have beats already made, or ideas you had laid out before hand?

B: Most of the beats really were made on the spot, when D and I were putting this whole thing together. He'd also write a lot of rhymes there and then, in short bursts and it was kind of the same with beats. I did have some lying around which we used. We'd go through beat tapes I'd made and we salvaged some of them. We evolved a lot of the stuff up, made it fit with the rest of what we were doing. So the writing, cuts and beats were in majority made on the spot, vibing together, going through records, tapes, and ideas. We'd make 2, 3 songs in a day sometimes, catching each other on the spot, doing it in bursts. We tried not to go back and redo too much once we'd laid it out. Then we got it all down, about 12 or so tracks and brought it to ABB who then gave us the full go ahead, told us to keep doing what we wanted and we finished the whole thing. We wanted to really make it an enjoyable album to listen to from beginning to end.

And scratching wise, I've found listening to the album that it feels like in a lot of places your cutting is acting like another voice, going back and forth with D. It’s almost like the cutting is part of the chorus as if it was a background singer or someone rhyming with D. Was that on purpose or did it just happen that way?

B: We made room for the scratches. We're from the same school of Hip Hop D and I; we like to have a dusty side to our music. The feel you get when you’ve dug for something to use. We polished some of the music and just tried to make it sound 'classic' in a way, you know? As for the cuts, it's really a no brainer for me; I always work with cuts, no matter what I do. Even if it's just me scratching a kick snare at the back to add some dimension to the track, it has to be there. I came up through the whole scratch thing and it'll never go away for me.
It's like I hear people scratching with their mouths more than anything these days! (laughs) So I like to remind people of the old school in a way, of how things used to be back when DJs were more considered I guess. But also back when skills talked and decided things. I like to bring some of that vibe back, and for the LJs album that's what we went for with the cuts. An old school mind frame but with a new school approach.

Did working with one MC instead of 2 make a difference to the way you went about producing and putting the album together?

B: It was different, but probably more similar really. With Dilated, there is a high regard to everything we do. We have to keep in mind how many samples we use, what we choose to cut up, all these things that are more important when you’re on a major label, mainly because of money issues. So we have to keep all this in mind and make sure we do what's best for the crew and what we all agree on. Whereas with LJs it didn't matter as much, we took what we wanted and just went with it. Samples, cuts etc. it was all pretty much free. We can't necessarily do that with Dilated, so in that sense LJs is a big release for me because I can keep it under the radar and do what I want production and cuts wise. I can really go for broke. And it was the first time I've produced a whole album, which was amazing. I produced it, helped engineer and master it, things I don't necessarily get to do with Dilated. It's tighter with them, because there are other people involved beyond the 3 of us. There's Evidence, Alchemist, maybe Joey Chavez or whoever else we get on there for production as well as myself, so I'm lucky if I see 2 of my beats on the album. But it doesn't matter who gets the production credits in the end because we all get on it, we work it together and bring our best to the table.
It was a challenge though at the same time. Working without Evidence and Rakaa, without an engineer, a technician, a big studio, it was more grassroots and it was back to being in my own studio in front of my computer, working with what we had. Which made me up my game, push what I do and add skills to my repertoire, something I'm grateful for.

And how important was releasing the album on ABB for you?

B: Very important. We recorded the whole thing very quickly, within 2 months; we’d hook up twice a week and do a lot in one session. So the LP really is just like a snapshot of a moment, it's very spontaneous. And to go back to independent game rules was also key to making the album what it is. It's a glorious project in many ways, and we just handed over a fully mixed LP to ABB, all of it pretty much done, so that all they then had to do was get a cover done, sort out the press and do the release push. It's like it was 90% done and ABB came in and did the rest, which worked perfectly.
Thing is as well, ABB is also a loose home of sorts for the both of us. That’s where I started with Dilated Peoples, I remember playing Defari's records as a fan before we met, and so it has a special history for the both of us that also makes this project even more special. I really believe that ABB is one of the great few remaining independent labels of its time, and it's a blessing for us to still have this outlet for our music and projects.

Seeing as I asked Defari, what would be your favorite tracks on the album?

B: Probably 'Ghetto' and 'Brother'... 'Brother' is actually going to be on the next single, so that's probably why it's on my mind right now, I've been playing around with it again, getting it ready for the single release.

When I spoke with Defari he mentioned that for him LJs was a throwback in a sense to the soulful days of Hip Hop, it brought some soul back to the game. Do you agree?

B: Well it's definitely got a soulful vibe to it, for sure. But I don't know if I'd want to limit it to just that. The LP is varied, it's not just one vibe all the way through. There are ideas on there, interpolations of soul, and a lot of samples too, but it’s I think more down to the vibe I was in when digging for the album and the fact that D is just a huge soul and rnb fan. He just loves it so much, he listens to soul and rnb more than anything else, he's constantly on it, talking about it, you just get him started and it's on! (laughs) So I guess we just normally gravitated towards a lot of soul vibes for this LP, the samples etc... But there is also a lot of various stuff on there, there are samples I lifted from bugged out records not many people will know about. There's French records, Polish stuff, from all over really which I think also makes it what it is, it's a very unique album that has a soulful vibe but dips into loads of different influences and territories.

Wicked... Well I also wanted to speak about your scratch origins, and your roots in the tablist movement.

B: Ok.

First thing was about your role in the spread of the word turntablist. I'm sure you must have spoken on it many times, but I was wondering if you could give us some details about how it all came about, as you're widely credited for birthing the term in a way.

B: Well I humbly accept the position I've now been given for this whole thing, but I want to stress that I was just part of a whole load of DJs who really made this whole thing happen. People like DST are in a way those who really deserve the credit for it all because they gave the bug to scratch to our whole generation, he started it by being part of the Herbie Hancock band and doing his thing on 'Rockit'. Without him and the other pioneers, probably none of us would have got into this thing.
After that well... It was around 95, I was heavily into the whole battling thing, working on the tables constantly, mastering new techniques and scratches, and all the while working in a gas station and spending my spare time concentrating on all these things. One day I made this mixtape called 'Comprehension', and on there was a track called 'Turntablism' which featured Melo-D and D-Styles. And this is part of where this whole thing about turntablist came from. This was a time where all these new techniques were coming out, like flares and stuff, and there were probably 20 people or so, in around California between Frisco and LA, who knew about these. So we worked on them, talked about it and kicked about the ideas that these techniques and new ways of scratching gave us. And what I would do is write 'Babu the Turntablist' on tapes I was making at the time, and somehow it got out a bit, the media got hold of it and it blew into this whole thing we now know. But it was really nothing to start with. We'd all talk about these new scratches and how they really started to allow us to use the turntable in a more musical way, how it allowed us to do more musical compositions, tracks, etc. and then we'd think about how people who play the piano are pianists, and so we thought "we're turntablists in a way, because we play the turntable like these people do the piano or any other instrument". Beyond that, it was just me writing 'Babu the Turntablist', because it was something I did to make my tapes stand out. I'd just get my marker pen out and write it on there.

I see, and how do you feel about how the term has turned into a bit of monster and taken on a life of its own ten years down the line?

B: There was a time when we complained about mixers, about not seeing battles on TV, getting coverage, recognition for what we were doing and now you can go to the shop down the road and get a DJ in a box set, scratch records full of all the classic sounds, which in a way is good because it makes things evolve. Things have changed a lot and it’s partly because of what we all did individually and as a whole. The level of skill today in DJs, young DJs, is higher than ever. And in a way people are learning about records in a different way to how I did, the Internet is there to help them, things just aren’t the same. And I think that when anything like this scratching movement grows, and it’s still a young thing anyway, there’s bound to be good and bad, but you’ve got to carry on. You can get stuck on what you see as bad. That’s just the way life goes.
Personally though I love it all, I love the technology and how it keeps moving things up. I really believe that DJs are the future of musicians. Today some of the best engineers out there are DJs first. It’s become part of the job to be up on technology and everything to do with sound. You learn to cut, flip doubles, drum, and then you move on to learning to use Pro Tools, deal with MCs, record people, multitrack, etc… Technology allows you to do whatever you want today; the sky truly is the limit. Things like Serato, Final Scratch and CD decks are also pushing boundaries in the scratch realm. Personally I’m always going to have my turntable and records, and stick with them for the time being, but I won’t dismiss any new technology because of that either.
If I was a new DJ coming up today I’d be like “what?!? Records? What’s that all about? I’ll stick with my mp3s and CDs!” (laughs) Kids today look at records in the same way they look at you when you talk about old school game cartridges and shit like that. I know my kid is like that when I talk to her about games. It’s not that it’s alien to them but more that there is so much more at their disposal than just what we had with records and turntables.
Things are changing all the time but homework is still needed. This artform already has a rich history and it shouldn’t be forgotten. It all started 20 years ago in the Bronx when someone hijacked power to get a party going and now it’s a fixture of pop culture. It’s everywhere you look on TV, on the radio, in the magazines. Even Ronald Mc Donald cuts it up today!! You know it’s a bit like “Oh my God!” (laughs) Ultimately though it depends on where you’re at. I can understand how this might seem to some young kid like the whole thing is being ruined by becoming so trendy and popular, like “fuck that scratching shit, it’s too hyped”, but personally I can see the beauty in it all. But if I was 18 today I might be a bit blasé. I love it though, for me it’s all good and I know deep down that sooner or later it will become accepted as just another form of music making and musicianship.

It’s easy to not see the bigger picture and get lost in what’s happening now.

B: Yeah. For example, I look at the turntable as one of the perfect exemplifications of what Hip Hop culture is about. We took something, made it do something it wasn’t supposed to and it’s now accepted as such. And we’ve progressed it.
I’ve been blessed to meet a lot of my idols from when I came up, people like GWT, Jazzy Jeff and others, learn from them which is great. The DJs from our generation are acting as historians in a sense now, historians of our culture and art and so we need to maintain what we do and in doing that maintain the history. Today you could get decks and after two years become a DMC world champion, but you wouldn’t have the roundedness that people from our generation have. I’m not hating but I really believe that DJing takes a lot more then just one aspect, like scratching or mixing. It’s an artform that has many sides and aspects, and some people can become adept at most of them. There are people that can still rock a party better then me even if they can’t scratch. You need to be able to stand back and take the whole picture in, understand what it is, what the culture is about, and where it comes from. Sorry man I’m just blabbering on now…

No, it’s all good. I agree with a lot of what you say. In a sense that’s what the Beat Junkies are regarded as: people who are really well rounded and proficient in all aspects of DJing and the culture, not just cutting.

B: Yeah the Junkies are everything for sure. But at the same time we don’t want to be put into a box, like we’re old school you know? We’re always trying to push ourselves further and make sure we’re strong at what we do and pay our dues and make things move forward.

Well I also wanted to ask you about the stuff that’s been happening outside of battling. What D-Styles’ has been up to, what Excess is doing on the East Coast, the more musical side of things as it’s often referred to. You were part of the D-Styles sextet at the launch party for his album, and I was wondering if you’ve had the chance to check what these guys are doing and if you dig it?

B: I love it. That whole squad, D, Gunkhole, Ned Hoddings, have got good shit going on. I look at what they do as more of a straight up jazz thing in a way; they’ve got a strong jazz mentality to how they approach the turntable as an instrument and how to use it live and in productions. You know these are guys that are best suited to doing their thing in seated environments; smoky clubs, as opposed to straight up hip hop jams. It’s not that it doesn’t fit the hip hop mentality but I believe it’s best suited to that type of thing. They very much are on the cutting edge and are being true to the turntable as an instrument to the fullest. And we love it too you know. We want to do more of that stuff, so don’t count us out yet.
I really think that in the future, there’ll be turntable music sections in music shops and within that there will be sections for different genres. Not necessarily because it will all be made with the turntable but more in the way it’ll be categorized like guitar or piano records are today. People are going to make all types of shit with it; already I’m hearing drum n bass styles, all kinds of shit. Touching and manipulating sounds is going to become even more of a popular way to make music. And I’m definitely interested in going back to making music like that in the future. Right now I’ve gone away from it, but I was there at the beginning and because I’m doing my thing with Dilated and all that it doesn’t mean I’ve given up on it. Dilated Peoples is a full time job anyway, I’m telling you man I’ve got to keep up with them and it’s like crazy! It’s not easy! (laughs) And so I’ve not had time to concentrate on that like I used to but the years I’ve spent being a turntablist full time will always be with me and close to my heart. 2 years ago it was hard for people to believe I could play records and make a crowd move, 5 years ago it was hard for people to believe I could make a beat that didn’t have a juggle in it. But times change and things come back full circle. I can still zone out to scratching in my own time, but I don’t want to get stuck in the bracket of being a turntablist, I never wanted that. And that’s why I went and diversified myself. There’s no battle left around the corner for me anymore, so I’m happy to do what I do now and try to reinvent myself when I can. People may not understand why I don’t get stupid on a beat, or catch wreck at shows, but it’s not just about that. I’ve always wanted to treat the turntable as an instrument and so sometimes I lay back and sometimes I catch wreck, that’s what a lot of what I’ve done has taught me. Anyway, I’m sorry man I’ve gone off on one again!

It’s all good honestly. Actually I did want to ask you if the Beat Junkies had anything planned for the future?

B: Yeah we’ve got stuff in the works. The site is still going strong, you can definitely look out for more releases from the Beat Junkies label, mix CDs, records, we’ve got the second volume of our Private Stash DVD coming out soon. And hopefully soon you’ll see the Beat Junkies LP, with turntable music interpreted in our way and with our own flavor.
As for everything else check the site, check the Likwit Junkies site, the Dilated site, peep the new albums and check us at a show near you! Much love to everyone that keeps moving things forward.

Many thanks to Babu for his time and to Lucy at Elemental for the hook up. Be sure to check the following sites for more info on the LJs, Dilated’s new album and the Beat Junkies: defari.net, beatjunkies.com and dilatedpeoples.com. The LJs is out now in all good record stores and you can check a review right here. And be sure to check out the first part of our Likwit Junkies interview, right here, if you haven’t already.