P-Money is the diminutive New Zealand equivalent of Kanye West or something. Really I’m not joking, this guy is the biggest producer in his homeland, whilst also being the ex DMC and ITF champ and an all round sick party DJ. Ok I can already hear you say that with the size of his country, being the biggest producer is probably not that hard, but P-Money really is BIG. Like a string of number ones, top fives and top ten hits in the pop charts big, like being hassled by paparazzis outside his house big, like… well you start to get the picture now. However outside of NZ he may not really be that well known and so he ditched the fame and glory of his temperate isle in June this year to come over for a month long promo trip to London, alongside label mate, MC and good friend of his Scribe. The aim? Promotion for Scribe’s new single and P’s new album, ‘Magic City’, which were both released this summer on All City records and making sure us northern hemisphere types got the message. With a smatter of featurings on the album including Capone, Skillz, Sauce Money, Akon, Mystro and some of NZ’s finest mic talents it was only right that we tried to catch up with P-Money and find out exactly what the deal is on the album, where he’s from, battling, hip hop in NZ and random New Zealand facts you won’t know. So we collared him paparazzi style so he wouldn’t feel too homesick and sat down outside a pub on a busy London street on one of the hottest days of the year to get the low down.

What you been up to?

P: Basically I came over to London about 4 weeks ago with my man Scribe from New Zealand and we just been doing PAs and little shows here and there, trying to build some profile for ourselves and throw our name out over here. That's basically been the whole point of the trip. And also I've got my album, 'Magic City', out in July on All City so I'm promoting that as well. That's why I'm here.

Have you been enjoying the hot weather then?

P: Yeah man, it's a nice change of scenery from the last time I was here. I came towards the end of the year last time so this is great really. It's crazy though, it's like as hot as back home.

At least you don't have so much pollution! I actually wanted to ask you how you got into DJing as that was how a lot of people got to know you over here?

P: My first inspiration was Jazzy Jeff with his 'Live at Union Square' record, the B side to the 'Parents Just Don't Understand' 12". I must have been about 10 years old when I heard it, maybe even 8 or 9, and I heard his transformer scratches and the sounds they made and that just sparked my imagination. From there on I just tried to find out how he achieved those sounds and what it took to do it, I also learnt about other DJs, people like Scratch from EPMD, Ritchie Rich from 3rd Bass, those were the DJs that inspired me at a really early age. And as I got older I discovered DMC video tapes, so I watch the old battles with Cash Money doing his thing, right through to the modern ones which at the time was like Qbert and Roc Raida who were dominating the scene around the mid 90s. They were the guys to watch, so I studied them as well and I just really watched the tapes, learnt from it and as soon as I got my own set of 1200s at home I was sitting there and my skills got a lot better. Before that I had some shitty belt drives and a broken Gemini mixer, so I'd have to go to my friend's house to practice on good equipment. When I turned 18 I got my own set of 1200s and it was on from then.

Did it help you having the shitty set up? A lot of people say that it helps honing the skills in a way.

P: Yeah I guess it did, I had that drive belt set up from 14 onwards for 4 years and it was so frustrating. You had to try a lot harder to pull off cuts and moves that were quite simple, and so you practiced harder and getting a proper set up later on made me realise that a lot of it was easier. And I learnt a lot of things really fast from then on. It definitely paid off, coming from the ground up.

And how did you end up making beats and producing, was that like a natural progression?

P: Yeah the same obsession I had for DJing I had for hip hop production, I was fascinated by beats, where they got the breaks from, what machines they used and how the whole thing was made. Producers like The Beatnuts and Rza and the Wu Tang, I was just inspired by what they were doing. So I read up a few articles and got my hands on some equipment in the same kind of way I did with decks. It was bad equipment to begin with, I was practicing with little drum machines and four track tape machines, and kept practicing till I could afford better gear, and then eventually my beats were good enough to play to people, which was made easier by the profile I built up from DJing. So it all came together nicely really.

Did you find that getting a name through things like DJ battles, helped you find a way to get your beats out there and promote that side of your work?

P: Yeah for sure. I made a name for myself through DJing, doing battles, doing clubs and radio at home and then meeting a lot of MCs and just going 'eh check out some of my beats'. They knew my name, knew I had a profile, so they were more eager to listen and give me feedback or arrange hook ups. I just went on from there really.

I wanted to ask you actually if your experience with battles and the turntablism side of things had meant that you found yourself using your turntable as a production tool in the studio?

P: I use it sparingly to be honest. I sample all my stuff from vinyl but apart from that it's quite rare that I'd use my turntables or scratching when I'm in the process of making a beat. Once the songs are done I'll often add solo cuts here and there. I've always liked the less is more approach to scratching on records, like the old school guys used to do it. Scratching in the right spots rather then through the whole songs.

I know you're quite big over in NZ, with songs in the top charts regularly and quite a high profile publicly and so I was wondering what it's like to be over here for a while and not having the same reaction from media and people etc... having to go round and show people your stuff, in a way I guess having to prove your music again?

P: It's cool. I can come over here and be to some extent kind of unknown but also have all that experience and catalogue of music behind me. It's really exciting to come to a new territory and be like a new face and also you're not a party to anybody's politics or anything like that. And you can come in fresh and meet people, and more often than not they're quite impressed by the work even if they never heard of it and it makes them think 'what else am I missing out on?' and look into your other stuff. But also it's funny coming from home and having a sky high profile, getting recognised in the streets etc... and coming over here and being anonymous again. It's refreshing in a way, being able to go to a bar and not having anybody come up to you. Back home I can't go to a rap show and not get disturbed every five minutes or having someone pass me a demo or shit like that. Here it's cool and I'm actually the guy doing that anyway! (laughs) So the tables have turned you know?

You did production for Scribe's LP, and you two have worked quite closely on lots of various projects. So how did you two meet?

P: I met Scribe in 99, I was playing some shows. I won the national ITF title and so was touring around doing little showcases at nights and stuff. And he was the host of the Christchurch night, which is his hometown in the south of NZ, and he performed a two-song set. And I was quite impressed, because I hadn't heard anyone at that point in NZ that rhymed with a good flow, stage presence, the whole package type thing you know? I'd seen people have one or the other, but he had everything I was looking for in an MC to record with so I just approached him with a tape of beats and we listened to them in the van on the way to the next show. He liked what he heard so we stayed in touch from there on, and about 6 months later we recorded our first song. That was in 2000 and in 2001 I released my first solo LP, called 'Big Things', which had 6 Scribe songs and in 2003 we released his solo LP.

There was good chemistry between the 2 of you then?

P: Yeah for sure. We always vibe really well together, we got a mutual appreciation of each other's skills and talents. We rate each other and plus we got a good chemistry for live shows too, which helps. He's a DJ too, which is good for our live shows.

Well seeing as the new LP is about to drop, what would you say can people expect from it?

P: You can expect to hear some real top quality hip hop that kinda falls into its own category, it doesn't sound like UK or US stuff, but it can stand up against both if you know what I mean? I think that's the best bit of it, it's all beats that I made while in NZ, and I got MCs from home, from the US and even Mystro from over here too. So it's an international sound so far as the vocals go and the beats are just my sound basically.

How did the hook up with Mystro happen?

P: He was in NZ once for this New Zealand vs Australia MC battle, he was in Oz at the time but came over to NZ to judge the battles and perform and one of the promoters who organised that basically told me to come over and check for him, he's really talented he said, and I'd never heard of him prior to that so I came down to see for myself.
So we hooked up and ended up going out partying in some clubs in town and we really hit it off. So from there he asked to check out some of my beats, liked what he heard and so I said, 'let's record something' and it was very spur of the moment, we went back to mine, sat in the studio and did the thing. And I liked the track so much in the end I included it on the LP.

So would you say that it's the same for UK artists going over to NZ as it is for you coming over here? They won't be really known by anybody, etc...

P: Certain might be famous or there'll be heads who are knowledgeable about the UK scene but as a whole most people don't know what's going on. The biggest UK star is Roots Manuva, he’s very well known out there, underneath that I'd say probably Ty, because he's had one of his videos played over there. But really there's very few people getting attention in NZ... I've seen Skinnyman's video once and that's it really. We get all the US stuff shoved down our necks, which I'm not complaining about but nowadays it's getting to the saturation point.

You've got a lot of collabos with international artists on this LP, so I was wondering if there was a lot of back and forth between you and them in the making of the tracks?

P: All the American acts were actually lined up. I had a friend in America who helped me co-ordinate a lot of the features, and then I booked out a week and a half trip for myself to go to NY and we lined up all these people to be available in NY at that time. So it was really a matter of making sure the people who we'd approached and who were interested were gonna be in or around NY when I was there so there wouldn’t be any problems. So I got there, and just called people up, like Sauce Money and got them to come down to the studio. It was really spontaneous in a sense, which was nice.

Oh so none of it was really done over the net or anything like that?

P: No, I just went there, met people face to face, played them the music, chilled with them. When Capone came in the studio, I played him some beats, like 12 or something, he chose the one he liked best and we recorded the verse for that. That's pretty much how it went down. There were small fees involved as they don't know me and there's no reason for them to do me a favor, so I paid them some money but then it was worth it for the fact that I was able to record with them in the studio. That way you can really be a producer, they'll do a verse, ask you how it sounds, you can go back and tweak stuff on the spot, there's input and interaction, which is important to make a track sound good. It beats being distant and sending them a track for them to rhyme over and then it might not sound like you'd hoped.

What would you say was the most enjoyable collaboration then?

P: I think working with my guys back at home was the best, but apart from that working with Skillz was pretty special. When he came in, he listened to the CD and picked the beat he wanted to use, and he said 'gimme a minute, I'm gonna go and do something' and he walked out. So I thought he was gonna get his rhyme book and sort out the rhymes. But instead he walked out and literally came back ten seconds later and said 'cool I'm ready to go'. So I don't know what he did but he got behind the mic and I asked where his rhyme book was and he was like 'I don't have it, it's all in my head'. He started one verse, tried it again and dropped a completely different verse instead and then did that one again for a good take and then asked for the second verse, did the chorus as well and then when it came to third verse he went looking for his rhyme book. I was really impressed with the fact that he had verses ready to go; he is a commited MC. So I asked him if that's how he normally did it, and he said he'd been writing rhymes for a similar type of beat that week and had the rhymes fresh in his mind and so he gave that to me. All top of the head though apart from the last verse which was really impressive.

You said earlier on that you grew up watching the likes of Q and Roc Raida on videos and then you've got Roc appearing on this LP as well. That must have been pretty special?

P: The Raida collabo happened in NY as well. I met him when he came to NZ in 97and he judged the first battle that I ever entered but I don't know if he ever remembered me from that. I bumped into him again a couple of years later and a year after that too so we started to develop a rapport. And then I was hanging out in NY for two months a while back and I was living up in Harlem with people that knew him, so we started hanging out a bit, and he listened to my beats and he wanted me to work on something for his album, which he ended up not using, so then I asked him if we could use it for mine and he said 'nah let's do something new'. So we went round his house, got some beats, and he started scratching to some of my beats but wasn't really into it because they were a bit slow, as they're mainly beats for rappers. So he offered to make the track and do his cuts and leave space for mine and that's what we did. He produced the whole thing and the chorus cuts, laid his parts and left four 8 bar spaces for me to do my solo cuts. It was really cool to do and a total honour as well. This is somebody that I've seen as an influence and whom I copied style wise when I was coming up and so for him to give me a song and appreciate what I do was amazing. That was really a great moment.

You mentioned you do a lot of shows around. What's the thing you enjoy the most about showcases and live shows?

P: When I play out, for the last few years, it's been more of DJ sets than battle showcases. When I play clubs for me it's all about having a party and playing the joints that make people dance and have a good time. It's all about the party, play my favourite songs, get the party moving, drop the right tune at the right time and see the crowd go for it... that's one thing I love most, it's one of the best feelings in the world. Being able to play that tune that everyone knows and see them go wild is a dope thing.
I've done DJ sets with a showcase worked into it, a tablist orientated thing, but that was mainly when I was still battling. But it got to a point where I was only really doing that so I turned around and said to promoters that I'd only do 15 minutes of that rather than an hour's worth with a set around it. But as I got older, witnessing other party DJs that I'd grown up with play out, people like Tony Touch, Vinroc was sick, Jazzy Jeff who's an amazing DJ anyway, made me realise that that's what I wanted to do, the style I wanted to go with and so I made a decision a couple of years ago to move towards that.

And while we're on the subject, here's the obligatory 'do you still follow what goes on in battles?' question!

P: I don't really follow them to be honest. For the last 2 years I haven't bothered. I've just got really bored with them, nothing was amazing anymore, nothing made me want to go home and practice or made me think 'whoa'. My favourite time for that was probably 96 to 01, because every year I saw a DJ that made me want to go home and practice more. I stopped getting that feeling, so maybe I just grew out of it or something.
People try different ways to push it forward, feedback, loops, etc... and it might have reached a little plateau for the moment but I'm sure someone will come back out and shake things up again. There has to be another revolution soon basically, I don't feel like it's over yet.

I also wanted to ask you about the scene in New Zealand, can you tell us about it, what it's like etc...?

P: The hip hop scene back home is cool. There are a lot of groups coming up. The last 2/3 years has seen a big commercial push, meaning that record labels, radio stations and TV have all got behind local talents to the point where we can achieve top ten hits and number one singles on a regular basis. Which is pretty amazing and I've not seen that replicated in any other country apart from the US. On that level anyway. It's amazing for such a small country. Scribe's had 3 number one singles and I've had one and I produced all his as well. I've also produced other tracks for people who've ended up in the top 5 or ten. And that's in the pop charts too, so we're competing alongside straight pop acts, like Justin Timberlake and Black Eyed Peas. And we're in there doing hip hop which is really unique and with an underground perspective too, we all come from that background. I'm just doing real hip hop, we don't think of who to get to sing hooks or shit like that. We rap.

No corporations or big labels involved then?

P: No. I own the label, Dirty Records. Scribe's signed to the company, so am I and we've also got a local group called Frontline. And we do what we consider to be straight up hip hop from our perspective and people love it. The kids on the street seem to love it too, we get good reactions from crowds and shows. I think it's a situation where we're speaking for the youth of our country and they respond to that. They can relate to it, identify with us and come out and support it. They're embracing it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of animosity or problems in the public or the scene itself.

Would you say the size of the country might have had an effect in creating such a setting for homegrown rap? I was reading something on Australian hip hop recently and it doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same there, but the country is way bigger.

P: I think so. The size of it means you can tour the whole country in a couple of days. We can get to the small towns, reach to them and see the fans from all ages and all backgrounds more easily.

Are the crowds varied then?

P: Yeah. When we started about five, six years ago. It was all underground type hip hop clubs, usually more men than women, and then it changed. More girls coming through, more young people, more of the old people too, who are feeling it as well, and just a wide cross section of people who like good quality music and enjoy our stuff. Which is great too because then they might go out and check out the culture, other groups etc...

So would you say that hip hop culture in NZ is embraced and growing?

P: Yeah the market is growing in terms of record sales and stuff like that. The hip hop culture and people involved with that is bigger than it used to be but similar to what it always was. People who understand the whole history and all the elements. It's always been a healthy scene. For 3 years we had this thing called the hip hop summit, which was really a big help I think in keeping the culture going in NZ and making it what it is today. From 2000 onwards, we had this big hip hop festival over 3 days, with breakers, graffers, DJs, live groups, battles like ITF, movies and anything to do with hip hop. It got bigger every year for 3 years, drew in more people, more kids and they were all getting more exposure to all aspects of the culture, seeing how all the elements work together, you know? Eminem doesn't necessarily rap about all this other shit and they realised that with the Hip Hop Summit. Eminem might be their entry point to the culture but then they would come to the Summit, see us do our thing and maybe decide to learn more and see what's beyond the commercial stuff. It also shows them they don't have to be good at music necessarily, they might be dope with a can or at breaking, so it opens up other avenues for them. That's been wicked but we didn't have one last year, we had a similar thing that wasn't as big.

Does the tribal roots of people in NZ and the cultural aspects of the tribes who still live there, like the Maoris, have an influence on some of the hip hop being made out there? I guess in a way similarly to Australia where there is a growing Aborigenal influence on kids and people who make hip hop.

P: Well in NZ there are Samoans, Tongans, people from Fiji, Cook Islands, you name it they all live there, and then we also have the native Maoris. So you have all these different cultures there and that means that their music is also part of the culture and it gets absorbed into what people do. Especially if you live in or near a big town. Auckland for example as the biggest Polynesian community in the world, there are more Pacific Islanders in Auckland than there are back on the islands where they originate from. I grew up near Auckland to the south, and all that stuff is part of the local culture and so they're more likely to respond to black music in a way than anything else. Reggae has been part of the scene for a long time, hip hop was naturally part of the music too that you would hear growing up as a kid, because they can relate to it even if it's not Polynesian music. And then you have that side of the culture, their music, which is very rhythmical anyway, there's a lot of drums, polyrhythms, melodies. So they're a very musical cultural anyway and that all gets sucked into the New Zealand heritage as well.

Would you say those Polynesian musical influences appear in local NZ hip hop as well?

P: You can't help it. So for sure. Hip hop is about who you are, your environment so it comes out. These things are all part of us. As long as you grow up accepting that and don't reject it it's gonna show up somehow. You can't avoid it.
There's been a couple of groups that reference quite strongly their Pacific heritage. There's a guy named Che Fu, who has a lot of melodies, harmonies and arrangements that you can hear are influenced by his origins, you can trace it back to the Island roots he has. Then there is a group called Nesian Mystic who rap and sing and their melodies are also quite influenced by their roots. The beats are always quite melodic, with guitars and drums. The drums are quite prominent and they add hip hop style drums to it as well. The way they rap is quite different to someone like Scribe for example who is more a traditional hip hop MC. He's more traditional than them if you heard them basically. There's also a Samoan rapper who uses a lot of Samoan material and influences in his music. And also he shoots videos back in Samoa, so he's bringing the culture through in that way as well. Just repping for his people really strongly. And that's really unique to NZ, you don't get that anywhere else.

Well that's it. You got any last words?

P: Shucks man! Good interview! (laughs) That's the last word.

Actually a few quick questions and then we're done.
What would be 3 things NZ has that nowhere else has?

P: Tuatara, which is a little lizard we've got. Kiwi bird of course. And then... toffee pops! Which is a cookie with a regular shortbread base with toffee and caramel on it and covered in chocolate. It's the best shit ever and you can't get it anywhere else!

I want some now, it sounds well good.
Ok and 3 things NZ doesn't have which you wish it had?

P: More live hip hop shows. We're at the bottom of the world and we don't get any groups coming through. What else? We got so much good stuff we don't need anything else!

And 3 things people wouldn't know about NZ?

P: People often don't know exactly where it is! (laughs) Apart from that I don't know what people wouldn't know, I need something funny... Like we've got more sheep than people!

That's a pretty scary statistic!

P: Yup. And we have a hip hop scene and a history of hip hop culture within NZ and you might not realise that.

Many thanks for Pmoney for his time and The Outpost for the hook up. P-Money’s LP is out now on All City Records and available from all good record shops. You can peep extracts from the LP and more at pmoneymusic and Dirty.co.nz.