The French Connection, an interview with DJ Need of Birdy Nam Nam

DJ Need, one fourth of French collective Birdy Nam Nam (BNN), is widely regarded alongside his crew-mates (Crazy B, Pone and Lil' Mike) as one of the most creative DJ and artist in France today. Though mostly unknown to the world until their 2002 win at the DMC Team World Finals, they have since gone onto bigger and better things, following a route many established battle DJs have chosen to embark on: that of self expression through the turntables. But make no mistake the music BNN make isn't your average turntable music, and as the new single of their forthcoming LP has proven they have quite a few tricks up their sleeves. Ahead of the release of the LP, Samsascratch caught up with Need last year to talk about the album, the battles and other things. This is followed by an update of the interview, conducted a few months ago, bringing yet more insights into the mind of an artist you will want to get acquainted with.

First off let's get rid off the eternal starting question. How did you end up wasting your time rubbing your hand against slabs of black wax to make music, which is despised by the majority of musicians?

Need: Well firstly I don't think that most musicians despise scratch music; all those with whom I have worked or met have found the process of making music that way interesting and the results always different... On top of that I don't think I'm wasting my time. Otherwise well I discovered the turntables thanks to DJ Ride, an old friend who I used to skate with and who started before me.

Do you think that scratch music has a real future or that it is doomed to just be something used to emulate other instruments?

N: Even if you reduce this music to an emulation of other instruments, it (and its instrument, the turntable) would separate itself from any other because it allows you to incarnate or emulate all the instruments that exist. Like a sampler some would say, which is true though it adds a human element to it and as opposed to an mpc for example (which allows you to play sequences of sounds through pads) you are not constrained to a grid and you can control the sound at all times in its entirety (you aren't just playing a pre-sampled sound that will always sound the same). All the variations are possible and in real time too. In addition, the spontaneity offered by the use of turntables is unlike any other and there are still aspects of it and means of its use, which have not been explored. It's that perspective which I really enjoy, especially within scratch music. There are no established rules be it in the music, the way in which you make the music or even the sound which the music ‘should' have. Everything is still to be done. We are extremely lucky to be able to partake (and be producers) in the birth of a new music (or at least a new way to make music, for those more sceptic). So yes I do really believe in the future of this music.

Why did you choose the turntable and scratching and not another instrument? Why continue to make music this way? Beyond the notion of ‘each to their own' in what way is scratch music different?

N: My choice of using the turntables wasn't one of a musician being attracted to many different instruments... I bought tables because I listened to a lot of hiphop, it allowed me to buy Maxi vinyl (a kind of cross between single and Eps in France), which featured music that was not necessarily available on albums and also it allowed me to buy music by artists that weren't releasing albums. It was later that I discovered the pleasures of going off on one with scratching. And even though I have had a very personal approach to scratching (at least in my head) it has been a fairly long process for me to get where I am today. You have to put things into context; when I was starting the analogy of a turntable being a musical instrument was there in my mind, and even though I read about it in interviews at the time, it took me a long time before I fully understood it for one, and also before I could fully express myself using it. I get the feeling today that I have managed to synthesise, in a way, all my influences and I can express those in my music. Something that appears to be a starting point for many musicians regardless of genre, and it took me six years to get there.

Regarding your question about why continue making music this way? I would answer by saying I'm only just starting. I believe it is in the nature of its [scratch music] sound, the syncopation of its rhythm etc... that scratch music proves itself different but I also believe that you cannot just reduce scratch music to a sound or a style, it has to have a sound and a style which the artist imagines... If you take for example the night we did at the ‘batofar' with D-Styles, we made scratch music that night but across styles, it had different styles throughout. The term ‘scratch music' relates to a way of making music, but I don't think it relates to a sound. I think that in the future the styles which will be touched upon and dealt with by scratch music, will be so vast and diverse that you will not be able to group them all under one term. You would have to ask a listener if he can find differences between pieces made from scratch, or programmed pieces or those played with live instruments.

Do you have any formal classical music training, like theory, keys etc...? If so what do these add to your music? Or do they detract from it? Do you play other instruments?

N: No I discovered music through turntables. I started playing other instruments, like keys, drums, guitar and bass but all at the same time... And I believe that not having any formal musical training allows me to avoid repetition and not associate my work to a method or ethic which dictate rules and might hinder what I do. I would say it's a pretty positive thing in the end I think.

What do you think of this new craze I call, ‘double timing', which comes mainly from the D-Styles track ‘Urination' and also from the explosion of the ‘Toadstyle-istic' style?

N: I think that double timing has always been here and that with ‘Urination' and Toadstyles' appropriation of this cutting style, they have both just influenced people. The popularity of it stems from these two artists. I think it's a period, which is already starting to fade, isn't it?

Following this rise in pseudo-Toadstyles, I see more and more scratch DJs very (or too much) influenced by Nicks. Do you think this process of evolution through imitation is something that happens in all musical movements? Do you see it as something positive, negative or are you neutral on it?

N: I do think it's a normal process in any music. In a way it's positive because it allows people to open their mind to all that is possible to achieve using the tables musically, and in another way it's a waste of time because it pushes further back the moment when that person will find his own groove and his own style. You have to stop, think, listen, practice and take your time to create your own universe and from within that find your own style. If you spend your day listening to someone else's music and try to reproduce it straight up, the process whereby you will find your own style will only take longer.

In a recent interview with Mike Boo on asisphonics.net, he was saying that from now on the real creativity of turntable music was not in battles or other showcases anymore, but in the micro-community on the net. Do you agree with him?

N: I agree because the artists that do push the boundaries of this music today share their vision with a ‘community', which happens to be online. But it is in no way linked to the net; it just happens that people (who form that community) use the net to communicate with one another.

With Birdy Nam Nam, you guys actually manage to evolve and play on both levels: battling and scratch production. Do you find these two aspects incompatible, as someone might find when first thinking about it? What do you take out of these two aspects of the artform?

N: I don't think it's incompatible; it all depends on which way you want to look at competitions really. Personally, I'm not that attached to the concept of competitions as most people see it, to me it was just a means to an end. It allowed me to work within a group at a time when we needed to have this pressure that comes from working towards a battle title or a demo, so that we could all come together and work as a unit. As years went by it became a sort of game (like a challenge to rise to) and I'm happy to have gone that way even if from the start our aim as a group/team/unit was to make music, not win competitions. In 2000 our show was nowhere near anything else that was being done in competitions. We were beyond the standards. The following years, we sort of went with the rules of the game but more to prove to ourselves that we were able to win whilst keeping an amount of ourselves in what we were doing. No diluting. We got what we wanted in 2002, and if we had to take part again this year it would be to do a showcase away from all the rules and regulations in the hope that it could open new horizons for competitions to head into.

How have you perceived the evolution of the turntablist ‘scene'? How do you feel about it now? And where do you see it go in the future?

N: I think I have answered this question already in other answers.

How do you use the net? (Please don't answer with a PC and a modem)

N: Primarily as a means of information and also as a means of exchange. I would like to take more time to involve myself in developing a community and contribute more regularly to the everyday life on the net, but I don't really have the know how and not always the time. But with new people I'm meeting who are helping me, I have a few projects in the pipeline, with my decision not to go ahead with djneed.com. 

Why?

N: Because I had envisioned a site that would be very much community minded and which in the end would not have really been about me (taking into account that I'm hardly self centric, and I don't have a lot to say about myself). Thus we decided to concentrate all the work towards a new site that will be more info minded and should appear around the end of the year.

Is it bad to be a nerd? A scratch nerd? A record nerd?

N: For me any addiction isn't that bad as long as it makes me happy and that it doesn't affect the people around me. I try to go through life generally by being conscious that all its elements are linked and that without one, the others might not necessarily go as planned.

Which other DJs interest you?

N: Those with whom I work, Pone, Lil'Mike and Crazy B, who are really those who inspire me the most. Other then that probably D-Styles and Ned Hoddings.

Do you believe that such a young artform and music, which is still trying to find its way in a sense, nonetheless already possesses its musicians?

N: Yes those, which I just mentioned, and others that I don't know of.

What play list would you choose for someone who has never heard scratch music and which you would hope he would appreciate? How would you explain the concepts, would you add any comments?

N: Without being pretentious I would play him the music we make as Birdy Nam Nam, and explain that all of it is done on tables, just as he ears it. Nothing is programmed or re-edited.

Have you heard the track called ‘turntablist' (Desinteressement Passione) by Orgasmic Le Toxicologue on the LP, ‘Le Klub des Loosers' by TTC (he is also their DJ)? An all-scratch track on a rap LP, which is also French, is a rare thing that should be highlighted don't you think?

N: No I haven't but if it were available online I'd gladly listen to it and give you my opinion.

While we are at it, are you interested in this more abstract aspect of French rap (TTC, La Caution, Fuzati, James Delleck, Donkishot)?

N: I listen to music that makes me feel something; in French hiphop I generally listen to the beat of course but also especially the lyrics and I can appreciate lyrics which are well written and meaningful... amongst the artists which I like, I'd say Blackboul and Kiki from ‘Les Svinkels' but those which you mentioned I haven't really had the chance to listen to their output (I may have heard it but not necessarily listened to it).

What are your upcoming projects, with BNN and on your own? I heard you might be doing a tape with the very active DJ Pone? (Part of BNN, ex-Scratch Action Hiro and 89 Scratch Gangstaz alongside Snayk Eyez, and sound co-ordinator for the Funky Family)...

N: Right now we are recording the BNN album which should be out at the end of the year and I would like to spend some time doing mixtapes, which for me should be more of a representation of my own styles and vibes instead of being a selection of new tracks that aren't out yet. So I do have a tape in the pipeline in which will feature music I like and which I listen to a lot (and which I'm actually unable to really name) and which I have never heard on any other tape. And there is a project with Pone to do a tape together featuring a mix of US independent hiphop, circa 96/97, which I was buying at the time; the majority of tracks being even unknown to him!

Are you making a living from your work? If not do you think you ever will or is it utopic to think you can live of scratch music without compromising what you do?

N: No I do not make a living off this music.

What were the repercussions of your DMC title?

N: Apart from a few nights/showcases, none!

You tour abroad more then in France (UK, Norway...), how do you explain this?

N: I don't.

Why did you take so long to bring out your battle break? What has the feedback been like, and the rewards from it?

N: Well firstly because I didn't really have any concepts to start with (if you can consider SSB to have a real concept) and also because I did not have the means to do it well. Making scratch music was also a factor in that I had to create records to use in our productions and that helped me change how I thought about it. By the way Pone is releasing his break record at the end of the year, ‘Buy it Bro Breaks' on which I have two productions/sound banks. I also have another project in the pipeline, which should see the light of day soon featuring a friend of mine who is an avid record collector.

Do you approach practicing differently these days?

N: To me practicing is closer to solo exercises and due to me not having any tables at home for around 6 months, I lost the habit to practice. At the same time I have never been so prolific and never had the impression to progress so much then in the last year. But I have now started practicing again, and though I'm only doing 15 minutes and spending the rest of the day making tracks, it's an exercise, which I will start concentrating more on when I feel it is right. I have never forced myself to scratch; I always despised the use of the word ‘training' when speaking of scratch practice.

Which artists influence you, across the board? Which have influenced you too much if any?

N: All the artists making music that I listen to, though I could not name one over any other. I think that my vibe is the result of a synthesis of all these influences. Other than that I am finding myself more susceptible to images and graphic design, etc... I wouldn't go so far as to say it influences me musically but it is something that attracts me a lot.

What has been your biggest beef?

N: I don't think I have had one yet, do I?

Which of your live showcases have you enjoyed the most?

N: the one where we opened for Axel Bauer, at the Olympia in Paris recently (Bauer is a French mainstream singer). We played 5 or 6 tracks to an audience of non-scratch fans, totally uninitiated and the public really got into our vibe from the start and were really into it and receptive to the music and details till the end.

Which would you say was the worse? (You can say DMC France 98)

N: I wouldn't answer DMC 98 anyway, I'm actually quite proud of that... And any way I have total faith in who I am. I don't really have any bad memories, I always try to look at the future and I blank the bad times I think.

Musically speaking, what would you say are your qualities and defaults?

N: I think that I'm evolving within a group where the others correct the defaults of each member. Personally I'm conscious that my ear is severely hard to please, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and being conscious of this I sometimes limit myself to certain schemes within music. The fact that I listen to a lot of programmed music means that it impacts on the structure of tracks, it standardises it. I think I have a good ability to know where I want to take a track and where I can take it. I'm always questioning what I do, which is I think indispensable when you make music, but I ask the same flexibility of people I work with. Otherwise I always have loads of ideas and concepts (95% of the tracks we are working on with BNN, were started by myself or as a group) which means that sometimes I am not always able to develop what I do or take it further... Thus I have a strong need and want to make music but I'm also fully aware that I have a lot of things to learn still before I can really go at it solo. And I am lucky to have a group within which I can work and learn to fill in all these gaps.

Careful, here comes the ‘scratch theories head fuck' short questions...

DJ = Musician?
N: Yes

Turntable music = hiphop?
N: Yes and no

Scratching needs to separate itself from its hiphop affiliation?
N: Yes

What music are you feeling? Which albums would you recommend, which are your favourite?

N: I listen to everything. My favourite albums would be Main Ingredient by Pete Rock and CL Smooth, Bizzare to the Pharcyde, Keepers of the Funk by LOTU, Reachin' by Digable Planets, Da Shinin' by Smiff n Wessun, all Gangstarr LPs, all Tribe LPs, all those by RATM, Neds Atomic Dustbin (can't remember which LP), Minor Threat, can't remember the name either, and also jazz but there are too many to name, if there was to be one it would be A Love Supreme by Coltrane.

Outside of scratch music and music in general, what other things interest you?

N: People, art in all its forms as long as it ‘talks' to me, skating. I'm actually thinking of buying a new board soon to get around Paris.

Your thoughts on Phantazmagoera?

N: I think it's an album that came out too long after its conception. I love the way he went about making the music, the concepts, a lot of it in general but I am really not into the musical style (a bit too dark in places).

What does D represent for you?

N: A huge influence, perhaps the greatest. More in the way that from the beginning I feel like I can understand what he tries to express through his music, be it the scratch productions or the early ISP practice tapes or the solos on his album, even in his artistic choices and in the direction taken in certain of his compositions... I feel like I understand his choices and I stick to them a 100%. He's someone I felt I knew before I met him. And by the way he seems very similar to what I thought he would be like.

Do you work with classical musicians at all?

N: This year (2003) I have been involved with a project called Home Concept, which was developed by local organisations in Orleans. The concept is simple, they put together musicians from different spheres of the musical world, and give them the means to rehearse together (venue, instruments, etc...) before giving them a deadline to produce something that must be done live. Through this I met a bass player and a drummer with whom I did a 45-minute show, after 6 or 7 rehearsals. It was the fourth edition of this concept, and they wanted to fuse together things that had been touched upon in all their previous editions.

Who do you like to jam with most, and compose with?

N: With the other BNN members, because they are the ones I work with most of the time, but I took great pleasure in working on this Home Concept project and developing it live (and I also learnt a lot).

What do you think of Nicks aka Ricci Rucker? (In all aspects)

N: I don't really want to let out too much, as I know he does go through the forum sometimes... you never know it could be the occasion for my first beef! LOL... I think he is someone who touches on a lot of things, which demands a lot of talent, and because he is conscious of this, he expresses his thoughts freely. Personally I don't really care because I think a lot of what he says is true. I think it's more the fact that people are more used to seeing an artist praised by critics then by himself, but it doesn't bother me. I do find him interesting and I believe he will be doing a lot for this art form and music. And at the same time I'm quite happy to have found my own style today because I think he could have really influenced me.

Some questions from the fans.

Which artist outside of the scratch scene would you like to collaborate with and do you think you are on the same level as those of the musicians that you admire?

N: Firstly I don't think I'm on the same level as anyone else. I'm not able to measure my talent and I believe everyone has something more than the next person. Apart from that I'd love to work with D-Styles.

Your favourite porn star?

N: Definitely Sofie Evans.

Have you got any phobias?

N: I have got panic attacks, which often keep me awake at night. My mom recently told me that I was badly ill when I was a kid, around 6/7 months old. I knew that but the treatment I was given was hard. I was left for months sat on a chair day and night with my hands tied without seeing anyone. It's quite bad isn't it? Even my parents could only see me through a window; they couldn't come close to me. Maybe that's where it's from!

Which gear do you use?

N: Numark Pro SM2 mixer, TTX tables, pro tools and some pedals for live shows.

Music you listen to at the moment?

N: The last album by Ahmad Jamal, Ben Harper and Carla Bruni.

Top scratch forums?

N: djneed.com (RIP), d-styles, asisphonics

Top sites?

N: Same as above

Top TV shows?

N: I don't watch TV.

Be sure to check the second part of our Need interview, conducted in April 04, which you can find in the archive. For more info on BNN check www.hand-control.com. Interview conducted by Samsascratch for Hand-Control and reprinted with permission. Translation by Laurent Fintoni.