Classic Material, an interview with Oliver Wang...

Oliver Wang is a freelance journalist based in the Bay Area who has written on music, culture and race for many publications since 1994. He is also one of the few journalists to regularly talk about and discuss the growing art form of turntablism in his many writings on music. He is a radio/club DJ and has put out some classic mixtapes under the name DJ O-Dub. He also sometimes teaches classes at UC Berkeley.

Oliver's new book ‘Classic Material' is one of those books about Hip-Hop that leaves you wanting for more. Part guide, part critical review, the book never lets you down by looking at over 60 albums that have made Hip-Hop what it is today. If offers beginners and veterans alike a stepping ground for discovery or reminiscing, as well as being ‘opening statements in what promises to be a long conversation'. And that's the real strength of the book, as it doesn't pretend to be anything else, but a way for fans to talk about those influential moments in Hip-Hop and find more of them... in all the albums that were left out.

We caught up with him in late 03 by email for a quick chat about the book, music and turntablism. Before we start here is an edited extract from an article written by Oliver about how the book came together. Sit back, relax and enjoy.

Interview...

How did you work around having so many different writers and different styles of writing?

OW: That wasn't so hard, I handpicked writers whose quality of writing spoke for itself. I didn't mind having different voices, that was the whole point in the endeavour, it just mattered that I had good voices.

Are you planning any more volumes?

OW: I haven't really discussed it with my publisher.  It if were to happen, it wouldn't be for at least another five years I'd guess but who knows? I wouldn't mind another opportunity to update the book down the line.

Where do you think Classic Material fits in with the other books written about Hip-Hop recently? Do you think it could be used as a research tool for academics and students, in the same way other books about Hip-Hop have (like Hip-Hop America & Rap Attack)? Would like it to?

OW: It doesn't purport to be an academic or even historical text. I actually cautioned my writers away from writing glorified biographies. Much of that work has already been done quite competently elsewhere. I wanted people to focus on ALBUMS not artists per se (though of course, the two are rather inseparable to some degree).  While I'd be flattered to see it used as a research tool of sorts, I think its main audience are intelligent consumers and lovers of hip-hop who want to read something equally intelligent and passionate about the subject. Not that passion doesn't exist in academia but ‘Classic Material' doesn't purport to be historically objective in the way that say, Rap Attack or Hip Hop America are. This is a collection of essays about hip-hop and that may or may not prove useful to scholars.

Do you see your book becoming part of an educational process about the history of Hip-Hop, as a culture and music? Helping to educate those who don't know, and letting those who do know reminisce?

Something like that. I know the nostalgia impulse is nearly impossible to resist or avoid but I didn't want the book to be all about ‘remember back in the day'. After all, it's a consumer guide too, suggesting what people should take a listen to and why. In that respect, it doesn't try to always frame albums in terms of historical importance, at times it just wants to critically consider why a certain album is important to our appreciation of hip-hop.

What do you think are the reasons for the lack of good and widely available quality hip-hop books, resources and documentation?

That's a great question and one that's boggled me for a while. I'm not sure except to say that the wheels of publishing can turn very slow at times. Many publishers have treated hip-hop as a fad and thus, the quality of work that comes off that press reflects such a limited perspective. Especially within academia, things move very slowly which is why you're only now starting to see more hip-hop texts coming out on academic presses.  I think in the next 5-10 years, we're going to see a blossoming of ‘hip hop studies' so to say, with far better and more consistent work than exists now.

How important do you think multi-ethnicity is to the development of hip-hop culture?

OW: Hip-hop's roots are inherently multi-ethnic. There's ample evidence that now shows that the old school days were most definitely Black and Puerto Rican, and even within those communities, there's a lot of internal diversity. For example, many of the key old school DJs, Kool Herc most famously, were immigrants from the Caribbean. Moreover, the cultural and musical traditions that hip-hop draws on: soul, funk, jazz, disco, were all very syncretic cultures rather than monolithic or homogenous. Especially in the last dozen years, I think hip-hop has only become the cultural giant it has because of active participation by people from all across the ethnic spectrum.

What is your ultimate hip-hop memory?

OW: I don't think I have any one per se. But certainly, seeing the Roots live, for the first time in 1995, then having them come onto my radio show the very next day has to be a highlight. People say this often of The Roots, but the first time you see their show, it reminds you why you love hip-hop so damn much.

Would you encourage hip-hop culture degrees and study at college?

OW: I don't think we need a PhD in Hip-Hop Studies. After all, we don't have degrees in Rock History or Jazz Culture. It makes more sense to study hip-hop through the lenses of existing disciplines or an interdisciplinary approach that's capable of capturing the culture's full range of complexities. That said, I think it's a great area for study, there's so many deep, deep layers to hip-hop that you can never run out of things to say about it, or so it seems at least.

What does hip-hop mean to you in America right now?

OW: It's clearly become THE defining youth culture of the last 20+ years, arguably as big, if not bigger than rock n' roll ever was (but since I wasn't alive yet in the 1950s, I can't really say for certain). I think hip-hop has lost much of the rebelliousness of its youth but it still pushes and prods society in important ways. What will be most interesting is to see how youth of the ‘80s and ‘90s, who grew up on hip-hop, become tomorrow's leaders in media, culture and society.  I'll be very curious to see how their childhoods in hip-hop inform our realties tomorrow.

Which album is dearest to your heart?

OW: *laugh* I never liked these kinds of questions but push come to shove, I'll have to go with De La Soul's 3 Ft. High and Rising. That album changed my life irrevocably. I wouldn't be here, having this interview with you had it NOT been for that album.

What is your best memory about writing and editing this book?

Working with writers whose work I've always respected and looked up too. I partially dedicate the book to writers worldwide because I never cease to be inspired by how eloquently and passionately they can manifest their thoughts and love of hip-hop in words.

Turntablism questions:

What is your definition of turntablism?

OW: I think of turntablism as an offshoot of DJing, beginning in the early ‘90s. It basically promotes musical virtuosity vis a vis the turntable as an instrument. I prefer being more specific with my definition rather than taking the route wherein all DJs have been turntablists of sorts. You get that general feeling and you might as well junk the label ‘turntablism' because it becomes worthless at that point. Turntablism is POST-scratching, period.

Can you tell us some more about the work you are conducting for your PhD about Fillipino DJs in the Bay Area?

OW: I'm researching the history of Filipino American DJs in the Bay Area: how did they get started, why did that community respond so well to DJing, what have the legacies of that involvement been?

To you what are some of the most striking turntablist techniques to have emerged in the last few years?

OW: In the last few years?  None. Most of the major innovations within turntablism: beat juggling, hooking up a mixer through a wah-wah pedal, orchestrated routines, are all at least ten years old at this point. While more complex scratches may have been invented, they're still mostly based on the basic mechanics of scratching that have existed from the beginning. I do think that the advent of the digital turntable (i.e. CD players that function like vinyl turntables) is a very important technological leap insofar as it broadens the scope of what a DJ can do creatively. That's not a technique per se however, just a technological change.

What do you think of the growing amount of turntablists who turn to production and incorporate the ethics and practices of turntablism within their productions (such as D-Styles, Triple Threat and X-Ecutioners)? Do you agree that ‘turntablist production', such as these, is the next logical step for turntablism to further become recognized as a valid form of music?

OW: I think the merging of turntablism with production is good because it helps bridge scratching back to a bigger populus rather than turning it into some kind of elitist playground for only certain DJs. That said, I'm not sure that means hostile people will be more willing to accept turntablism as music if they don't already. I think turntablism passed into the realm of the music the moment scratching was discovered. Beat juggling and orchestrated routines only furthered that claim. If people still don't accept it now, these are folks who never will, regardless of ‘turntable production' or not.

What do you think of the recent symbiosis between analog and digital technology in DJ tools, such Final Scratch, CD decks etc... ? Do you think that the future of the turntablist could be to incorporate digital and analog together, in the way that many are already doing?

OW: Absolutely. I know very few DJs who have not embraced digital technology. Especially since all of these technologies you've mentioned are designed to replicate the analog, vinyl experience, that's already an acknowledgment that it isn't the DJs coming to digital tech, it's digital tech coming to the DJs.

Do you think scratching has reached an artistic ceiling as a musical practice of its own?

OW: I think it has for now but that's not barring some kind of brilliant breakthrough that may come down the road. That may come about because of new technologies or maybe someone discovers a heretofore unseen technique to DJing/scratching that takes everything to that proverbial next level (this is why Q-Bert has moved to Hawaii to practice in seclusion and learn higher scratching secrets. It's very martial).

What do you think of scratch notation and the effort by certain tablists to have the art form become accepted as a valid form of music? We spoke to Jazzy Jeff recently who said people like A Track and Radar who are developing their system of notation will be looked back at in 20 years as our Mozarts. Do you agree?

OW: I'm not sure. Scratch notation is still in very infant stages and it's not at all clear what system will actually take root among DJs across the board. I'm not positive turntablism NEEDS notation though I don't think it hurts either. I wouldn't compare A-Trak and Radar to Mozart, the latter was a brilliant composer in an already well-defined tradition. These DJs are more like King Oliver or Chuck Berry, innovators of a new mode of musical production.

What about the tendency and work of some DJs (such as Numark) to tranform the turntable, or part of it, into an instrument? (such as the use of strings and rubber bands to amplify the vibrations applied on them through the stylus)

OW: I think it's great. Numark is such an underrated creative force. And I think he's really pushing to find new ways to make the turntable new. I doubt there's going to be a bunch of rubber band playing turntablists out there but the fact that Numark would even spend time to come up with the concept I think speaks highly of how DJs are pushing themselves to figure out new ways to flip shit.

What are your top 3 all time favourite DJs?

OW: DJ J-Rocc: he's just such a fantastic party DJ, one of the best there is. DJ Shadow: apart from his musical ear, he's also an incredibly philosophical person when it comes to music. If he wasn't a DJ and producer, I imagine he'd be a professor somewhere, digging for arcane knowledge rather than records. DJ Joe Quixxx: one of the best, unsung DJs out there. His work on the Wake-Up Show in the early ‘90s was incredible and even today, he still knows how to rock a party.

What would be your top turntablist Albums and/or track?

OW: ‘Return of the DJ' is one of the few turntablist albums I can really deal with from beginning to end. A lot of the music on there seems a bit anachronistic now since scratch styles have advanced so much since the comp first came out but damn, here's an album with the Beat Junkies, Rob Swift, Alladin, Skratch Piklz, etc... all together at one moment. Groundbreaking to be sure.

Where do you see turntablism in 10 years?

OW: I'm not even sure it'll be around, in the way we know it, in just 3-5 years, let alone 10. And honestly, I'm not sure where it's going to be. I've heard turntablism described as a ‘creative cul de sac' and I have to admit, I agree with the sentiment and many of the DJs I've interviewed have said much the same. There are two problems (at least here). On a practical level, there just hasn't been a huge step forward in scratching style since the late ‘90s, if not sooner. Everyone's mastered all the basic virtuoso scratches, they might create new patterns, but no one's really come to the plate with something like the flare or crab, in terms of finding a whole new way to scratch. The other issue is more philosophical, I think scratching and turntablism have really tried to appeal to a virtuosic model of musical production rather than a populist ambition to find a bigger audience. On the one hand, that's produced some amazing technical advances by DJs over the years but on the other hand, it also means that the turntablism crowd is fairly select while most people out in the world still don't know a damn thing about scratching. If turntablism continues to be as insular, whether intended or not, I think you really have to ask who's going to be into it five years from now as more and more pioneers find other ways to busy themselves in music.

Oliver's book is out now in all good bookstore and on Amazon, so get a copy as this is bound to become a classic, and is also a damn good read. Find out more on him and his work at this excellent site www.o-dub.com which includes writings, blog, photos and more. Thanks to Oliver for his time and Kulsum @ ECW for the hook up.