The Scratch Perverts' rise to fame has been as unusual as their world famous DJ sets. A long and chequered history has seen the DJ collective evolve over the last 8-9 years from unknown contestants to DJ battles world champions (winning solo and team DMC & ITF titles in the space of 5 years), from a loose collective of 8 to a strong team of 3 (Tony Vegas, Primecuts and Plus One), and has seen them become world famous club DJs with a memorable and on going residency at leading London nightclub Fabric as well as countless tours and festival appearances that generally leave people speechless and in awe as they ram through more music than you ever thought possible in 2 hours. Having hosted the European and World finals of the Allies Beatdown DJ competition for the last two years at Fabric they have ditched the battle this year for their own version  of the event and used the occasion to celebrate the release of the first single on their self titled label; a single which has been awaited more then the return of the saviour in certain circles. As such it was time for us to head down to Fabric and have a chat with Tony Vegas to find out what the Perverts have in store for 2005.

First up, what have you  been up to?

T: Well at the moment as the Perverts we've started our own label with the first single which came out a couple of weeks ago. Response has been great, which is good for us. And a lot of gigging as we always do and concentrating on this night here (the 2004 Beatdown). Once this is out of the way we'll work towards our EP which should be out around February. It's going to be very different, deliberately so. There's going to be rappy kinda stuff on there but we are also going on some angles with it that the first single didn't really show. Your first record for me it's just important to release it, and just get it out. We're happy with it, but the second one will be outrageous! 

Talking about the Beatdown there's been a bit of a format change since last year, mainly the fact that there is no battle. Is there a reason for the battle not happening?

T: There is a reason, and the reason is Infamous from the Allies is a prick. And I'll say it to his face should I see him again. We started this whole thing in good faith with them, we had a good relationship with fabric, which is a fucking good club, and good people work here so we thought of using that for Beatdown. So we did the first one with them, the 2002 European finals, great event, probably the best battle anyone will ever see. Last year we did the world final and that's where the problems started. The first promise which failed coming through was Qbert doing it for nothing! He's agreed, he can't wait I'm told so we tell the club to run 10,000 flyers and it turns out it's not true and that he'd never heard about it. So I got on the phone, and I'm told I've got to sort it out, we want Craze, he has to do it. And Craze hates him, so I talk to Infamous, he tells me to do whatever needs to be done to get Craze. So I call his agent, Craze wants 3.5 grand, it's his fee, fair enough, and he's coming a long way to do it. Infamous agrees to it, Craze comes over, plays but doesn't get paid. Tigerstyles wins it, the prize is 2,000$ out of Infamous' pocket, this is what he's talked about. He's going on about the prizes on stage, all this gear, Tigerstyles wins it but doesn't get a thing. It's not so much that I think we look stupid it's more that I don't want to work with stupid people. And that's what it came down to. We have a really good relationship with the people who have taken part in these battles over time. Such as Kodh, Netik, Troubl, Tigerstyle. Tigerstyle is in Japan right now, and he'd rather be there then in London any night of the week, so he's gone to Japan to have a great time because he deserves it. I was trying to get a battle set up for tonight between Merge and Tigerstyle as they battled last year, but I couldn't get hold of Merge. Spoke to him about it, and he said he'd loved to do it but his phone was on answer for two weeks. As deadlines come closer you run out of options. I think that after the fall out with Infamous we knew we weren't going to put a battle on, people do that and I find them a bit boring now and a bit restrictive to be fair. At the end of the day I can't knock the battles and these situations as we're here because of our involvement in it. But you invite people to come along, they spend a year practicing, go on stage for 6 minutes, put their lives in many ways emotionally on the line and then they get nothing! And I think there's more to that music, that style of music and the performances that this music can bring then simply standing there and battling. And I love battling, since the 80s, I love the whole idea of it but I think tonight isn't about that anymore. I think that putting Ian Brown on is probably one of the biggest hip hop ideas I've ever had. I don't care what people think Stone Roses were fucking outrageous and hip hop was always about that. And Ian Brown as a solo performer has made some amazing records, records I hold very dear. And that's a hip hop thing to me really.

You've switched from having a battle and the night round it, to making the night on its own worthier then a battle event.

T: It's almost like the strength of the line up feels like a battle to me. Not battling with each other, but you've got Dillinja & Lemon D, Ed Rush & Optical, J Majik and Mampi Swift who are all top people, then Ian Brown and Jazzy Jeff in another room and then Roots Manuva and Vadim in another room and you can't pick better people from each field really. And obviously Mixologists and Blakey as well, so it feels almost competitive. The fact that everyone is really fucking good. And that's what I like about it, the idea that the competition takes place in people's decision making process when they come and look at the line up. Where are you going to go and at what time? You're going to miss something. And I love that. I love the idea and I think that's why the way the night's been programmed is good fortune because people said yes to doing it and we end up with a bit of a competition in itself, so we're proud of it.

Going back to the album, and the fact that you've been meant to release something for ages now. So you were saying there will be an EP following the single now, is that prior to an album?

T: We think so, it's weird with making music maybe it's because I'm getting old, I'm 32 now, and time does really fly by. When I sit at home and work all day and that's all I do, working hard on the music, I could sit there for a month and maybe I won't have anything to show for it at the end but I know I've been working hard. It's quite a difficult thing to understand where time goes. And it has taken a while; we've had a schedule which has been busy mainly because of our reputation getting bigger. The club circuit and festivals we've done, that's an equally important commitment to releasing the album. And you've got the problem of releasing an album but there being no audience to listen to it. And we're getting better at making music, and I think that's the thing we challenge ourselves with the most. First single is out, we like it, it's cool. But we're really challenging ourselves in how we make music at the moment. We want to make really good records that you're really happy with. And that takes time, we probably lost a few fans along way and probably gained a few more, and people's patience may wear thin enough for them to think we're not interested anymore but that's up to everyone and I'm cool with that. But it takes time that's really it. And we hope that when it comes out it'll be really good and we're hoping to have a live show we can take on the road, to back it up. That would be amazing and it's one of the main things we keep in mind when we make music. We're going to be a band basically. We got a great singer, guy called Mik from Newcastle, amazing bass player we've worked with, some fucking amazing musicians and the idea is to make a music which amazingly dynamic live because there aren't too many bands like that around anymore.

So you're looking at making music in the studio that you can then take live on the road?

T: That's part of it. A band I always find inspiration in is Roni Size's. As a band they're amazing and the sound on stage is huge, but then Roni makes big records. To me it always felt like it was a band, the drum sounds were incredible and that's what we want to do in a way. We'll all have our role to play on stage, we'll have turns, drummers, play synths and that stuff live. And in front of it will be people more talented than us, to be honest. Not saying we're not, but we've got a great bass player and a great singer, maybe have Dynamite on there too.

A bit of a generic question but can people expect a certain style out of the forthcoming material?

T: I don't know if there is a style to except as such, it's just going to be across the board, and some good songs on there as well, which maybe some people won't expect. But again with production that we hope will give the songs a different feel. It's all too easy to say it's gonna be fucking great and different and blah, blah, blah... but ultimately it's going to be our first album and what comes of it we'll find out when it happens.

The first single had quite a few guests on it, is that something you want to keep going or?

T: We can't afford it to be honest. We pay for everything ourselves and we're very happy to do that. Mos Def agreed to do it for a fee, luckily we had the money, he's a big hero of mine and a great MC, so it was a pleasure. Black Thought, again the same I think he's banging. I think Dynamite is a great MC, and working with McKay as well was good. But we don't want it to be like certain albums where you have a production credit and then a enormous sticker telling you all the guest artists on there. Which is why we found certain people we're working with, and we want to build good and strong relationships with them. And go from there really. But the first single had to be put out, we've spent a lot of money on that, but I'm glad we did, it was a privilege to work with Mos. We couldn't just shelve it until later; we had to get the record out. And we're happy with our decision and with the first single.

Like you said you're building on your club reputation.

T: Yeah totally. We were offered the club tonight right. They knew we weren't doing the DJ battle, and they asked if we wanted to put a night on. The club said they'd back it, do everything they need to do. It's an amazing offer, we are in many ways seen as being responsible for the best line up in the whole of the country this year and all I've had to do is pick up the phone and call people. No worries about the money, we're not getting any money for tonight, no fee, because it's our night. I'm fucking laughing to be honest, called Ian Brown, as I know him and he said he'd love to do it. Steve who runs the promotion here at fabric proposed jazzy Jeff and we also got the best of pretty much everything in this country. And the best club in the country as far as I'm concerned so you can't really go wrong. As I said I just hope I look good at the end of it!

You're known for your really eclectic club sets, you generally play across the board, and you're also known as big dnb aficionados, always playing it in clubs or playing at dnb gigs. And with that in mind is dnb creeping into your production work?

T: I think out of respect for the people who make this music we're trying to let some of it work its way into our music... but it's bloody hard. Because some of these people are bloody good. You're not going to find a bigger record then one made by Dillinja, or a more intricate, well produced, banging piece of music then the whole Breakbeat Kaos camp would come out with, or more funky then something Full Cycle or Ram would come out with, and it goes on and on. TOV, Renegade, these people make really aggressive, different sounding music and we're lucky to know most of these people and be good friends with some of them from just working the clubs over the years. We've spoken to a couple of people about remixes, which I think will come off. You know what, I went round Pendulum's house the other week and listened to a bunch of stuff they're working on... and fuck that! Will I ever be as good as them? I doubt it...

But there are three of them...

T: But you know there are people who come along sometime and take on a certain thing and that's what they have done. And I think we haven't taken all of it, we just want to be ourselves and do something different. Take the drums and the bass out of Pendulum's music, and you'll probably still have some fairly amazing music to listen to. My main goal when it comes to their influence on us is to work with people like that, offer them a remix that they would say yes to, it would make me a happy man. Can't compete with them though, no fucking way.

And how do you work together as a trio in the studio?

T: I think the trick is to work individually to start with. And I think that's in our instinct and nature anyway. We were all individual battle DJs, and I work at home on music, so does Plus One and so does Primecuts. And Prime wants to play me something that'll blow me away, and I want to play Plus One something that'll blow him away and he wants to play Primecuts something that'll blow him away, so the cycle takes place until it stops and one of those ideas is a really good one. We really come together when it comes to the mixdown and things. We bring ideas to each other's ideas in conversations but any idea has to be started individually I think for me. Unless you're a band I guess... Even if somebody takes the lead in their head whether or not the others know it. And it's harder when you make studio based productions. But we found it's quite good to work that way though. The one thing being that we all really enjoy it.

Bringing it back to the tablist thing, do you still follow what goes on with the scene much?

T: Not as much, I think I followed it instinctively because I was in it. I followed hiphop always since being a kid. Some people in it I think are really good; the saddest thing for it though is that there isn't the media attention there was when we became successful. When I won the New York thing in 97 the press over here went mad! Here's this kid, runs a record shop, everybody kinda knew me anyway and things were really good for me. But Tigerstyles is a much better DJ then I ever was, and does he get a gig? Does he get written about? I don't think he does, so I don't think it's right. Kodh, Netik and Troubl, even in my heyday if I had kept on practicing to the point where they took over battling, they would have murdered me. But they don't get anything written about them much either. And I find that quite sad, and I realise that my back seat approach to it probably has a little bit to do with that. I'm really glad and proud of what we've done, but I think there is always a bit of that when it comes to tablism. And I know Kodh quite well, I really like him but he doesn't get a lot of work doing this does he? And I find that a bit hard.

Yeah there is a very fine line in a way with tablism. You've got this whole underground approach to it, people wanting to keep it to themselves but also with people like you the possibility to break through that and bring it to another level.

T: It was great for a while, and it's not like I feel we didn't earn it because we did, but I feel sorry for the fact that these guys haven't had the opportunity to achieve half of what we've achieved.  And they bloody would, and I don't think it's fair. That's why we brought Kodh and Netik last year and brought them to New York as well, even though Infamous shat on them again when they were there. And that's the thing, I want to see them all do well, and I'm not embarrassed by the fact that we have and others aren't doing quite so well, but these kids are really fucking good and I maybe see the structure of competitions in a different way now. And I think some of it is too theorised, some of it is too analytical and too rehearsed and people sit there and tell you whether you're good or not. Never bothered me when I was a battle DJ, because I thought ‘fuck you I am good' but I have to sit there now and judge someone, people who are ultimately better then me and I find it quite hard. I find the whole idea behind it quite hard. And again I think that the idea of people going on stage and doing the same scratches, the same fucking routines is boring. Hip hop was always a personality thing; the whole thing erupted in the way in which it did because people with nothing had a huge amount of something, which was personality. And they gave it through music and it was amazing . Everyone was an individual, which is why the idea of battling took place in the first place. Because I am me and you are you, and me is me is better then you is you. It was amazing, but no one gives a fuck about being themselves on stage anymore, they care whether or not their three clicks are going to come off! It's like ‘fucking get over it!' It isn't about that. And I've practiced with everybody, Q at his house, cut with D-Styles, Short, battled Babu, practiced with Craze, Klever, and all these kids. The really good DJs are human beings first and then they are analysts of the art secondly. Most of the kids you find in battles they don't even analyse the stuff properly and all they do is go on stage and replicate somebody else and I don't like it, I'm bored with it, when it comes down to it. And that's why I love someone like Tigerstyles because the kid is fucking ridiculous. It's also why I love Kodh, Netik and all that lot.

Yeah totally, and so in that sense have you had the chance to check out much of what is going on outside of the battle scene? Like what Tigerstyle is doing solo, what D did with his LP, etc...?

T: Yeah a bit. At the time I didn't see what we were doing back then as making music and that's it. And I think that the title of these records and the emphasis when it comes to how the record is promoted is so geared towards the turntable music argument, turntable as an instrument that I find it limiting. Not in what they can do, because some of these people mentioned are very talented people but if 4 turntables and 4 mixers sounds great and on the 5th table you've got a little guitar riff being stabbed in and stuff, it would sound better with a guitar played live. I'm not knocking it but it would! Cutting words here and there or vocals, I would rather have a vocalist on my record rather then chop up some vocals on vinyl. I find the idea of human beings being responsible directly for what they think and what they create and what they hold in their hand really appealing and the turntable does that to a certain extent. And I think it all coming together is great. And ultimately someone just releases their album. And you listen to their album; you don't listen to their turntable album. You listen to their music. I read an interview with Rob Swift once and he said he'd love to work with the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and some other people and why not! It doesn't have to be restricted to one thing; it's all about making music. And I think the turntable suffered a little bit from the whole new guitar phenomenon. It's not. In a piss taking way we were going to do t shirts ripping off the ITF logo, saying ‘promoting the turntable as a record player' because it's become so fucking up its own arse and a little bit too clever for its own good I think. Not taking anything away from an awful load of people but the greatest time in my life so far has been in and around these people but life doesn't have to be about just one thing and especially not when it comes to music. And the point I make is that if a live guitar sounds better then cutting it up then fucking do it.

Any last words?

T: Thanks and yeah thanks. I was going to say something clever but just have a good night!

Many thanks to Tony for his time and to Nick @ fabric and Keir for their help in hooking this up. For more info on the Perverts check their site. The first single is out now on Scratch Perverts recordings featuring MC Dynamite, Mos Def, Black Thought and McKay. More on fabric can be found here. Also be sure to check our review of the Perverts Beatdown at fabric and look out for more on them in the future.
An edited audio version of this interview will be aired on Turntable Radio in early 05 alongside tracks from the Perverts past, present and future.